Living in the Lake District I can fully relate to this. It breaks my heart to see what some people will do to places of beauty in pursuit of their own enjoyment.
I think you have done a great thing writing this. We live by the principle “Do least harm” (sadly there is rarely a case of no harm..in a trek you can tread on something (eg a worm)) etc. Be responsible for the footprint you leave in the world, own it and being able to justify your choices it the most comforting for us, and I hope the community and nature. No we aren’t hippies, we are just conscious of our actions in a Utilitarianism manner. Go Gail. speak up and encourage other to think.
My commendations Gail, on trying to address the competing claims, influences and sundry entitlements that dog this subject, inflaming near riots for some,others just quietly doing their best to be fair.
It really brings me to tears so see how some people behave - not just the obvious detritus, but also the exclusivity that arises - someone else may feel unable to share that ‘claimed’ space.
As an ‘unseen’ there’s the apparently ‘harmless’ runaround that people give their dogs, perhaps mortally disrupting nesting, resting or tightly territorial creatures in moors, fields and woods.
Statutory rights might, just might, enable a whole new wave of environmental enlightenment, but I’d hope to see an organic sea change in the popular will to call out poor behaviour and attitudes, in a helpful way.
Nobody, in the end forms a connection with government, do they.
Now that the salt path movie is out this is going to become more of a problem I think. I was searching for some balance in the commentary on the movie and and found this. I appreciated your clear explanation and especially your reference to Kant 🙂. I live in the lakes and am also one of those who don’t do things I’d love to because there are laws against it and if everyone did it, it would be disastrous. I’ve tried explaining this to lakeside campers but as you can imagine, while we often have a good discussion, I don’t think I ever change anyone’s mind!
You raise very many valid points, and I commend your bravery. Because not many people will stand up when there are many strong voices out there saying otherwise.
Like you, when I see a fire directly on the ground: on sand, on grass, on rocks etc, I get angry. There are some large, supposedly environmentally conscious clothing brands that promote that very thing and it makes me mad. I've seen the mess the photographers and models have left behind on Glebe beach. And there's no excuse for it.
I do have issue with your examples of the campers post lockdown. It is one that many of the landowners like to use against the idea of having a more open right to roam in England.
Those people were not wild campers. They were fly campers. People who could not go to festivals that year. People who couldn't stay in campsites or travel abroad to their cheap sunshine holidays.
They were very clearly not the respectful wild campers that leave no trace. I saw them for myself, and I was upset and angry about what they were doing. Leaving their rubbish. Using their disposable BBQs. Damaging the environment.
I mean, who in the hell would wear a bikini on Dartmoor? Because anyone who is out there for a wild camp would know all about avoiding ticks.
It's important not to mix the two. To do so would be to get angry at the wrong people. That isn't fair. It's what some people use to try to shut down what few rights we have.
Since that time, I've not come across anything like that. The legal areas where I wild camp are now empty again or with other respectful wild campers.
There is a responsible way of wild camping that does not litter the ground or leave human excrement or any trace whatsoever. People have been doing this in Dartmoor for a long time. Decades. And in Scotland where there is a more open right to roam.
People shouldn't be promoting poor behaviour. That isn't right. And it isn't right to be sharing the locations of environmentally sensitive or local beauty spots (Glebe used to be one of them, now it's impossible there in the summer).
Being the devils advocate, because I think it's important to understand things from other people's perspective as well as our own, I don't think you can blame people for feeling so hemmed in in this current society and with financial and job insecurity where it is, that they are in search of a different lifestyle. To experience the freedom of outdoors without having to ask permission.
Humans are not supposed to live like we do. And over the past 100 years or so, we have had more and more rights taken away from us, including having The Commons sold. If you're in search of more personal freedom, what worse way can there be than to come across heavy restrictions which favours landlords that cause far more extensive environmental harms than a few responsible wild campers.
So I can 100% understand. But I've always said that activism is shortsighted. It certainly doesn't think about the consequences of the half solutions that they promote.
Do these people use these photographs to gain likes? Well, that is the point of social media. Why else would you post something? That's why I personally rarely partake in it.
Totally agree Gail and thank you for putting it out there. We have a camper and sometimes (often actually) I'm embarrassed by the behaviour of some members of the community. The sense of entitlement, the disregard for the environment, for local people, for others who want to enjoy the outdoors, is astounding.
We live close to the Peak District and I've seen over recent years the explosion in visitors particularly to the honeypot destinations. The area is littered with people who don't want to pay for parking or for a pitch, who don't want to contribute financially to the beauty spot they're visiting or treat it terribly by littering and leaving dog sh1t then post on socials how beautiful it is.
I was brought up to feel very guilty about trespassing, so stealth camping where not permitted would probably be a miserable experience. Luckily I live near an area where LNT backpack camping is permitted. And I have no social media following to Influence not to behave badly. I do silently seethe at people posting shots of campfires and other irresponsible stuff, but I'm generally averse to putting my head over the parapet so I just judge them in my head instead...
Totally agree, Gail. I believe the freedom to wild camp in Scotland has now been curtailed because the ‘right’ was being abused, with people leaving litter and mess etc. I guess it’s all to do with that sense of ‘entitlement’ that is so prevalent.
I fucking love you! I also learnt the countryside code at school and recently thought twice about messaging an influencer listing our local bluebell woods as a free thing to do without mentioning not picking any, not trampling etc. I will be messaging her now. I’m also ashamed to admit I read that book on swcp and assumed all the wild camping was permitted so thanks for continuing to educate me.
Loved this! So many ‘yes yes yes!’ Moments. Too many nowadays seeing nature as the new trend/cool thing. I can never understand those so selfish of mind talking about the beauty of places but then ruining it by tagging it etc 🫣 weird world we live in..education is KEY. Looking forward to reading more 😬
I enjoyed reading your thoughts Gail. I was taught the countryside code when I was young. I can’t remember if it was at school, brownies or St John Ambulance cadet service. I don’t know what the answer is but for sure education is key from a young age.
Living in the Lake District I can fully relate to this. It breaks my heart to see what some people will do to places of beauty in pursuit of their own enjoyment.
I think you have done a great thing writing this. We live by the principle “Do least harm” (sadly there is rarely a case of no harm..in a trek you can tread on something (eg a worm)) etc. Be responsible for the footprint you leave in the world, own it and being able to justify your choices it the most comforting for us, and I hope the community and nature. No we aren’t hippies, we are just conscious of our actions in a Utilitarianism manner. Go Gail. speak up and encourage other to think.
My commendations Gail, on trying to address the competing claims, influences and sundry entitlements that dog this subject, inflaming near riots for some,others just quietly doing their best to be fair.
It really brings me to tears so see how some people behave - not just the obvious detritus, but also the exclusivity that arises - someone else may feel unable to share that ‘claimed’ space.
As an ‘unseen’ there’s the apparently ‘harmless’ runaround that people give their dogs, perhaps mortally disrupting nesting, resting or tightly territorial creatures in moors, fields and woods.
Statutory rights might, just might, enable a whole new wave of environmental enlightenment, but I’d hope to see an organic sea change in the popular will to call out poor behaviour and attitudes, in a helpful way.
Nobody, in the end forms a connection with government, do they.
Now that the salt path movie is out this is going to become more of a problem I think. I was searching for some balance in the commentary on the movie and and found this. I appreciated your clear explanation and especially your reference to Kant 🙂. I live in the lakes and am also one of those who don’t do things I’d love to because there are laws against it and if everyone did it, it would be disastrous. I’ve tried explaining this to lakeside campers but as you can imagine, while we often have a good discussion, I don’t think I ever change anyone’s mind!
You raise very many valid points, and I commend your bravery. Because not many people will stand up when there are many strong voices out there saying otherwise.
Like you, when I see a fire directly on the ground: on sand, on grass, on rocks etc, I get angry. There are some large, supposedly environmentally conscious clothing brands that promote that very thing and it makes me mad. I've seen the mess the photographers and models have left behind on Glebe beach. And there's no excuse for it.
I do have issue with your examples of the campers post lockdown. It is one that many of the landowners like to use against the idea of having a more open right to roam in England.
Those people were not wild campers. They were fly campers. People who could not go to festivals that year. People who couldn't stay in campsites or travel abroad to their cheap sunshine holidays.
They were very clearly not the respectful wild campers that leave no trace. I saw them for myself, and I was upset and angry about what they were doing. Leaving their rubbish. Using their disposable BBQs. Damaging the environment.
I mean, who in the hell would wear a bikini on Dartmoor? Because anyone who is out there for a wild camp would know all about avoiding ticks.
It's important not to mix the two. To do so would be to get angry at the wrong people. That isn't fair. It's what some people use to try to shut down what few rights we have.
Since that time, I've not come across anything like that. The legal areas where I wild camp are now empty again or with other respectful wild campers.
There is a responsible way of wild camping that does not litter the ground or leave human excrement or any trace whatsoever. People have been doing this in Dartmoor for a long time. Decades. And in Scotland where there is a more open right to roam.
People shouldn't be promoting poor behaviour. That isn't right. And it isn't right to be sharing the locations of environmentally sensitive or local beauty spots (Glebe used to be one of them, now it's impossible there in the summer).
Being the devils advocate, because I think it's important to understand things from other people's perspective as well as our own, I don't think you can blame people for feeling so hemmed in in this current society and with financial and job insecurity where it is, that they are in search of a different lifestyle. To experience the freedom of outdoors without having to ask permission.
Humans are not supposed to live like we do. And over the past 100 years or so, we have had more and more rights taken away from us, including having The Commons sold. If you're in search of more personal freedom, what worse way can there be than to come across heavy restrictions which favours landlords that cause far more extensive environmental harms than a few responsible wild campers.
So I can 100% understand. But I've always said that activism is shortsighted. It certainly doesn't think about the consequences of the half solutions that they promote.
Do these people use these photographs to gain likes? Well, that is the point of social media. Why else would you post something? That's why I personally rarely partake in it.
Totally agree Gail and thank you for putting it out there. We have a camper and sometimes (often actually) I'm embarrassed by the behaviour of some members of the community. The sense of entitlement, the disregard for the environment, for local people, for others who want to enjoy the outdoors, is astounding.
We live close to the Peak District and I've seen over recent years the explosion in visitors particularly to the honeypot destinations. The area is littered with people who don't want to pay for parking or for a pitch, who don't want to contribute financially to the beauty spot they're visiting or treat it terribly by littering and leaving dog sh1t then post on socials how beautiful it is.
I was brought up to feel very guilty about trespassing, so stealth camping where not permitted would probably be a miserable experience. Luckily I live near an area where LNT backpack camping is permitted. And I have no social media following to Influence not to behave badly. I do silently seethe at people posting shots of campfires and other irresponsible stuff, but I'm generally averse to putting my head over the parapet so I just judge them in my head instead...
So well done for putting yours up!
Totally agree, Gail. I believe the freedom to wild camp in Scotland has now been curtailed because the ‘right’ was being abused, with people leaving litter and mess etc. I guess it’s all to do with that sense of ‘entitlement’ that is so prevalent.
I fucking love you! I also learnt the countryside code at school and recently thought twice about messaging an influencer listing our local bluebell woods as a free thing to do without mentioning not picking any, not trampling etc. I will be messaging her now. I’m also ashamed to admit I read that book on swcp and assumed all the wild camping was permitted so thanks for continuing to educate me.
Loved this! So many ‘yes yes yes!’ Moments. Too many nowadays seeing nature as the new trend/cool thing. I can never understand those so selfish of mind talking about the beauty of places but then ruining it by tagging it etc 🫣 weird world we live in..education is KEY. Looking forward to reading more 😬
I enjoyed reading your thoughts Gail. I was taught the countryside code when I was young. I can’t remember if it was at school, brownies or St John Ambulance cadet service. I don’t know what the answer is but for sure education is key from a young age.